So i've been playing a few open world sandbox games lately and I think I've just come to the conclusion that it isn't possible to have a balanced or non-toxic open world PVP game. It feels like you constantly run into groups of people who are like power-hungry control freaks that get kicks off of being powerful in a video game or something. Do you think it's possible to make a non-toxic open world PVP game or do they just always attract degenerates?
Are non-toxic open world PvP games possible?
- Thread starter ArcaneConsular
- Start date
Games are not toxic, people are.
You're not going to change people, no matter the game.
You're not going to change people, no matter the game.
But... I really dont get you guys... Whats the difference if you die to a NPC ?
Just look at the PKs as if they were high end monsters.... Do the possible you can to avoid them, change your routes, hire other players to protect you, be creative..until you can also fight and face them !
What makes a good game is the thrill, the excitement....its knowing that when you leave Town, odds are that you wont survive, unless you are smart enough !!
Why do some people leave towns so calm and relaxed ?
Hell..Ive killed people that left town almost naked, carrying lots of gold on a Mongrel horse with no armor, going from Fabernum to Tindrem.... like they were 100% sure they would ride in peace, with zero risks...
For god sake.... When you leave any town, be READY !!
I think you need to specify what you think "toxicity" is because players behaving as power hunger, territory control freaks in a game with full loot and territory control ain't it and that is all I got from your example.
Yes... I believe he is mad about dieing whenever he tried to leave somewhere. Maybe a group of PKs camped some town´s exit or something like that... and he considered it toxic.
I would say if a game is skill based enough and rewards training it would turn less toxic. Accountability does alot.
Dedicated players train more then toxic players, so the problem will solve itself as it used to. Politics worked for a reason in early MO.
Dedicated players train more then toxic players, so the problem will solve itself as it used to. Politics worked for a reason in early MO.
No I wasn't even really talking about this game tbh this game is probably pretty low on the toxicity scale compared to most games tbh. But, you basically answered my question by toxic I just mean people like you who try to spit venom and insult and be rude and mean to people for no reason. Saying that I'm just a baby or whatever and that I suck. For anyone asking about what I mean by toxic, this is exactly what I mean. The unnecessary element of rude and mean behavior that often comes along with open-world PVP games
If it's not about the player actions (e.g. killing for loot), which are part of an open-world PVP game, but about verbal "harassment" then just disable VoIP.
You're not explaining what you mean by "toxic" and the assumption is you dont like dying in open world games that allow pvp anywhere. I mean if thats not the case then like others said.. Verbal toxicity is lame, however killing you for your stuff is the G A M E.
Jesus.. No. Im sorry.
Im not toxic. I was just stating what felt... not to offend you or anyone...
I even wrote an example of what happens with some people that risk a lot of stuff without thinking about it or having a strategy before making a dangerous trip carrying treasures....
Man. I do not disrespect anyone.
I play this game as a PK... You call what you want, Toxic, Coward, Griefer...
The fact is that I role play like a bandit !
I hide in the wilderness and observe... When I see a weak target, I attack... if I see more than ONE person riding, I stay hidden.... if I see an armoured guy I think twice before attacking... But when I see an easy prey, alone, with low armor, I attack to loot him. Because thats what outlaws and scoundrels do.
Im not a PvPer...I am a PK ! Its y playstyle.
But I will never mistreat or call names or insult any player (unless its a known scammer or exploiter, of course).
I dont insult any players. But I also wont speak softly on those players who usually dont use their mind.
I consider myself a honest player, on an evil playstyle
Toxic as in Dossing the server for months in order to prevent people sieging your keep?
Yea, thats toxic. And yes it did happen in MO1, and im very sure those same people are now playing MO2.
Free for all, full loot pvp game attracts some of the most toxic players in existence because they are allowed to do what they cant in any other game (or even in real life): pray on, harass and torment real people. Once these unstable individuals get a taste of it, they want more and more. You've all met the type, and if you haven't stick around… you will.
Yea, thats toxic. And yes it did happen in MO1, and im very sure those same people are now playing MO2.
Free for all, full loot pvp game attracts some of the most toxic players in existence because they are allowed to do what they cant in any other game (or even in real life): pray on, harass and torment real people. Once these unstable individuals get a taste of it, they want more and more. You've all met the type, and if you haven't stick around… you will.
LOL, yeah...
Committing IRL felonies for video game advantages counts as toxic.
Your post is accurate, and anytime this type of discussion happens the people who dare to criticize the behavior are aggressively gas-lit. Every time, like clockwork.
Full loot PvP games are supposed to be 'toxic' to some extent; that's part of the fun... BUT, the problem is that rather than deal with potentially limitless toxicity/grief with impossible odds(for example, you can't even compete ON PAPER because of the skill system day 1, let alone in terms of wealth/gear/player-skill), most people will just stop playing the game. Thus, before long, you end up with a majority of toxic 'I'm the alpha male look at my huge e-peen' folks... It then snowballs from there, as the ratio of d-bags to decents grows higher and higher. For this reason, sensible mitigations are essential for the success of a full-loot PvP game. That is why the whole PK mechanic (Murdercount & timer/blue-grey-red flags/regional reputations/guards) that operates under the hood of MO2 absolutely needs a major overhaul or complete rework if the game is ever going to succeed. Having longer res walks & less towns is not a fun consequence for being a red, and 'murdercount' & timers does not provide new-players with any recourse to being slaughtered like dogs.
The 'realism' argument re: having no recourse as a new player, firstly, isn't fun and, secondly, isn't actually philosophically realistic from a social standpoint. This is because, in real life people have real consequences and either learn to act in acceptable ways, or deal with being shunned/jailed/dealt-with in some way, by the rest of society. Whereas, in a game, there are no real consequences except that people will just get sick of dealing with griefers and stop playing said game, as the amount of enjoyment they get is outweighed by the anguish of having to deal with tiresome smoothbrained-fuckwads the entire time. You will never be able to get the kinds of inherent tribal affiliations that exist in real life, completely implicitly, to exist implicitly within a video-game. People in an MMO have no intrinsic relationship except where made explicit by a mechanic.
If you enter a game like MO2 with nobody ready to help, you are completely helpless and the game offers no real recourse in way of starter guilds, or actual social mechanics that might give you some recourse. Instead, the majority of people seem to promote misconduct, and don't care about the long-term wellbeing of the game as long as they can 'do whatever they want', at an extreme advantage (complete character build/wealth/guilds etc) because 'that's the point of the game'. The point of the game is an immersive fantasy world with full loot PvP, but the point of the game is not griefing helpless new players, and, if it is, then the game frankly is no good and deserves to die. People who take this line of thought are basically just being spoiled over-entitled brats, and SV should not listen to them if they want the game to succeed.
The 'realism' argument re: having no recourse as a new player, firstly, isn't fun and, secondly, isn't actually philosophically realistic from a social standpoint. This is because, in real life people have real consequences and either learn to act in acceptable ways, or deal with being shunned/jailed/dealt-with in some way, by the rest of society. Whereas, in a game, there are no real consequences except that people will just get sick of dealing with griefers and stop playing said game, as the amount of enjoyment they get is outweighed by the anguish of having to deal with tiresome smoothbrained-fuckwads the entire time. You will never be able to get the kinds of inherent tribal affiliations that exist in real life, completely implicitly, to exist implicitly within a video-game. People in an MMO have no intrinsic relationship except where made explicit by a mechanic.
If you enter a game like MO2 with nobody ready to help, you are completely helpless and the game offers no real recourse in way of starter guilds, or actual social mechanics that might give you some recourse. Instead, the majority of people seem to promote misconduct, and don't care about the long-term wellbeing of the game as long as they can 'do whatever they want', at an extreme advantage (complete character build/wealth/guilds etc) because 'that's the point of the game'. The point of the game is an immersive fantasy world with full loot PvP, but the point of the game is not griefing helpless new players, and, if it is, then the game frankly is no good and deserves to die. People who take this line of thought are basically just being spoiled over-entitled brats, and SV should not listen to them if they want the game to succeed.
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probably should be its useful sometimes aga
idk I thought the word toxic was pretty well understood by most gamers. But generally I mean the stuff that goes outside of playing the game like lying, manipulating, creating rumors about people, trash talking, etc
Oh well as long as those people exist and there is an option for it. Itll happen. Just like life.
No. Stakes are too high. If I'm playing SWTOR or ESO nobody really has a reason to spy on me/my guild. The highest thing you can can achieve is good coordination in endgame raids or arena PvP. Spies, are not going to help there.
But in a game like this you have spies, lairs trying to stir up drama, and people just generally being toxic when the pressure of the game gets to them. I'd say the best experience I've had in a game like this is Wurm Online's PvP community because Wurm is a generally chill game, but even there the PvP community definitely has it's toxic elements.
You switch over to the PVE servers and 90% of the people you meet are super chill. Just the nature of the beast.
Even in a non-open world PvP game like Smite, Starcraft, Overwatch etc. you'll get more toxic players but you can easily bypass that by building a cool crew to roll with and putting anyone whose toxic on your block list.
Plentiful amounts of toxic players you can't just ignore is unique to this genre.
But in a game like this you have spies, lairs trying to stir up drama, and people just generally being toxic when the pressure of the game gets to them. I'd say the best experience I've had in a game like this is Wurm Online's PvP community because Wurm is a generally chill game, but even there the PvP community definitely has it's toxic elements.
You switch over to the PVE servers and 90% of the people you meet are super chill. Just the nature of the beast.
Even in a non-open world PvP game like Smite, Starcraft, Overwatch etc. you'll get more toxic players but you can easily bypass that by building a cool crew to roll with and putting anyone whose toxic on your block list.
Plentiful amounts of toxic players you can't just ignore is unique to this genre.
Judging from your definition, a non-toxic sandbox open world pvp mmorpg would probably be quite boring. This is just people being people, this means the game gives them some strong emotions, almost like true rivalry etc. Anyway it's not overly excessive in MO2 compared to other games. I'd even say, MO2 is full of friendly and nice people. Maybe it's only until TC is on.