A Definition of Guild Types via Tags

MolagAmur

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I notice the two of you took the time to reply again, but not to my constructive and polite counterpoints and reasoning. You latched on the others who disagreed - instead of taking the time and willpower to actually consider my words and reply coherently. Noted.
I wasn't being hostile or avoidant. Now that you mention it though...just because you made the post doesn't mean all replies are meant for you. Tbh I didn't even read your reply...

Also I'm not interested in debating this topic. I said that in my first post. I just wanted to reply to Kaemik.
 
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Kebek

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These tags are in no way meant to take over guild ID or politics.
It's all they are good for.

Using these tags we can help direct the masses to a guild that intrigues them more easily.
Yeah, it's not YOUR job to direct people to any guild. Leave it up to the guild recruiters on how they want to present their guild. They can, on an individual basis, decide whether they use these simplistic tags or not. There is absolutely no reason the community as a whole should embrace or standardise this simplistic, dumbed down identification system for guilds from 20 years ago.

It would actually be a great way for guilds to filter out the morons. If they can't figure out what your guild is about without some stupid tag, maybe they aren't the kind of dumb dumbs you want in your guild.
 

KermyWormy

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90% of guilds are just slightly different flavors of the same thing anyways...that's the gist I get from reading the copy/paste recruitment spam everyone posts on discord every couple hours.
 

Piet

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May 28, 2020
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Hello all!

Here is a rough take on a simple guild tag system. It is what I interpret to be close to what we already loosely use - just with some more info and guidelines added in.

These tags are meant to be used mostly in Recruitment Posts, in order to help players understand the general outlook and style of your guild - these tags are in no way meant to fully define you or your actions. They are a guideline.

Of course, any particular guild will vary in it's actions (as I have mentioned above), but if these tags are used correctly, it can help players understand you better at a glance, and also provide you with a potential outline for your rules or political decisions (should you feel like leaning into them, totally not something that is expected).

Moving forward I will use this post and these tags as references, even if they end up just being for myself.


If you like these, please adopt them into your guild posts! If you don't, perhaps consider posting here with why/what you don't like!



PvP Style
Risk to a Random Player, low to high: Blue -> Orange -> Red.

Yellow means it depends on the guild.
Murder is defined as killing someone who has not agreed to combat.

RPK - Random Player Killers:
Openly murder anyone at any time. The first side to a large general political conflict, actively fighting ANTI RPK players and commonly sympathizers as well. Murderers.


ANTI-RPK:
The other side to a large general political conflict, actively fighting RPK players and commonly sympathizers as well. They either only murder players for a specific reason, or do not murder at all - but can get carried away in their presumption of a players political relations - resulting in them killing (random) players.

PK:
Players who only murder if they have a specific reason. They could murder someone who is perceived as random, but if asked, will have a specific, tangible reason. Selective Murderers, often territorial or live by a code.

ANTI-PK:
Players who think ANY murder is wrong. Will ONLY kill those they see as murderers.




Other Focuses
The following tags SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY TAG your guild has - you need to define your PvP style from above as well.

PvE - Player VS Environment:
Players who focus on PvE content like Creatures, or Crafting.


Empire:
Players who plan to focus on Base Building / Regional / Territory Politics.

Trade:
Players who have a focus on mercantile services of varying natures. Not just a crafter in spare time, but players who actively advocate for their craft or services, and strive to build clientele.

RP - Roleplay:
Players who act out a specific role, often speaking in or as a character or acting as if the game is real, in order to build immersion.

(Merc)enary:
Players who accept contracts related to PvP - usually needs another type with it.



ExGuildOne (PK, RP)
A Player Killing Guild with a Role Play Focus - They only kill (random) players when they have a specific goal that is related to a form of RP, and killing is not their default reaction.


ExGuildTwo (RPK, Trade)
A Random Player Killing Guild, with a Trade Focus - They openly kill anyone they cross if they feel like it, but offer mercantile services and will not kill those they are doing trade with.


ExGuildThree (PvE, PK)
A Player VS Environment Guild, with Player Killing tendancies - They never attack people unless they have personal issues with them (such as revenge on a ganker or to make a player leave a spawn).

ExGuildFour (RP, PK, Trade, Merc)

A Roleplay Guild, with Player Killing tendencies, and a focus in Trade + Mercenary Work - They only attack players if they have a specific reason, governed either by their RP or Mercenary Work. They also offer Merchantile / Non-PvP Services.

I am sorry to say this is wrong. There is RPK, ARPK, Trade, Merc, or Empire. RPK randomly kill players, ARPK hunt RPK, Trade do trade, Merc is mercenary groups, and Empire doesn't RPK or ARPK they go based on their KOS/diplomacy.
 
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Nefnate

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I am sorry to say this is wrong. There is RPK, ARPK, Trade, Merc, or Empire. RPK randomly kill players, ARPK hunt RPK, Trade do trade, Merc is mercenary groups, and Empire doesn't RPK or ARPK they go based on their KOS/diplomacy.
Thank you for your opinion. However that is what it is - you can't tell me I'm wrong. The entire subject is subjective. If I'm wrong, you're wrong, it just depends on who you ask.

I see your logic and I don't dislike your system, but what about guilds who have no interest in Empire building but PK with rules and explicit reason? What about Roleplayers? What about those guilds that show up that exclusively PvE (there were a lot of those that came and went in MO1)?

I'm not asking for you to actually answer those questions - my point is, there is still a lot of grey area revolving around your selection of tags. I understand that someone else may say the same thing about mine (that they cover too much / or not enough), but I feel as though I've spread it out enough with flexibility for just about everyone.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. It's clear this isn't catching on to be mainstream any time soon. However, I will be continuing to use it, and the OP of this thread (it's me btw, new acc) will exist as a reference for anyone who doesn't know what I mean when I use them.
 

Piet

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May 28, 2020
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Thank you for your opinion. However that is what it is - you can't tell me I'm wrong. The entire subject is subjective. If I'm wrong, you're wrong, it just depends on who you ask.

I see your logic and I don't dislike your system, but what about guilds who have no interest in Empire building but PK with rules and explicit reason? What about Roleplayers? What about those guilds that show up that exclusively PvE (there were a lot of those that came and went in MO1)?

I'm not asking for you to actually answer those questions - my point is, there is still a lot of grey area revolving around your selection of tags. I understand that someone else may say the same thing about mine (that they cover too much / or not enough), but I feel as though I've spread it out enough with flexibility for just about everyone.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. It's clear this isn't catching on to be mainstream any time soon. However, I will be continuing to use it, and the OP of this thread (it's me btw, new acc) will exist as a reference for anyone who doesn't know what I mean when I use them.
It's not subjective. Those are the correct definitions. I didn't make them up the whole mo1 community did. Also of course there is empire that lean more arpk, there is rp, there is pve, there's lots and people can say what their guild is about. In the end it's just to help people know what type of guild it is, helps with recruiting and politics. Mine wasn't all inclusive of course but yours are just wrong. ARPK for instance especially. ARPK hunt RPK and don't RPK themselves, things like this with mis information cause confusion in the community and recruiting.
 

Nefnate

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It's not subjective. Those are the correct definitions. I didn't make them up the whole mo1 community did. Also of course there is empire that lean more arpk, there is rp, there is pve, there's lots and people can say what their guild is about. In the end it's just to help people know what type of guild it is, helps with recruiting and politics. Mine wasn't all inclusive of course but yours are just wrong. ARPK for instance especially. ARPK hunt RPK and don't RPK themselves, things like this with mis information cause confusion in the community and recruiting.
It's honest. The A-RPK says they are against RPK groups. The rest? Is sadly true, from experience and repetition. Time and time again, A-RPK groups turn more sour - if they see a group playing with an RPK guild target, it's commonly "guilty by association", and using such logic, a lot of the time non-RPK players or groups end up getting lumped in with the RPK crowd.

My definition doesn't claim all A-RPK are like this.

"but can get carried away in their presumption of a players political relations - resulting in them killing (random) players."

But CAN**, it isn't definite language, it is flexible.
 

Piet

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It's honest. The A-RPK says they are against RPK groups. The rest? Is sadly true, from experience and repetition. Time and time again, A-RPK groups turn more sour - if they see a group playing with an RPK guild target, it's commonly "guilty by association", and using such logic, a lot of the time non-RPK players or groups end up getting lumped in with the RPK crowd.

My definition doesn't claim all A-RPK are like this.

"but can get carried away in their presumption of a players political relations - resulting in them killing (random) players."

But CAN**, it isn't definite language, it is flexible.
That makes them not arpk anymore. True arpk groups can turn rpk and all that yes but that doesn't need to be included in arpk description because then it switches. In the same note you can't do daily farm with and assist rpk and then be confused why you are dieing when they are attacked and you are side by side usually fighting together.
 
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Speznat

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Do we need extra tags?
I mean many guilds have a reputation over years for being arpk or rpk and stuff.
Many People judge others by thier actions. So if one guild plays arpk and randomly killing someone who isnt an rpk than the guild have to live with the consequences because than they are not arpk anymore.

I mean Im not disliking ARPK guilds. But the problem with those is that many times in the past ARPK players kills random people for bullshit reasons.
The thing is. If I for example the trader and PVE player. Running around the map and im seeing an RPK guild than I know they will kill me so I maybe start attacking. If an ARPK guild comes along than I often in MO1 waited and than they made the first hit.

I mean not all ARPK guilds are assholes. But many wanna be the white knight. But in the end they are even bigger assholes than the RPK guilds.

Maybe im completly wrong. But this is a very interresting topic. we all can debate weeks without end.
Extra Tags dont have meaning when people will not be 100% as what they label themselves.
And we have seen in the past that from a group of 30-50 people. There is atleast 1-3 people who dotn follow the own guild rules.
Its just difficult.
 

Nefnate

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Do we need extra tags?
I mean many guilds have a reputation over years for being arpk or rpk and stuff.
Many People judge others by thier actions. So if one guild plays arpk and randomly killing someone who isnt an rpk than the guild have to live with the consequences because than they are not arpk anymore.

I mean Im not disliking ARPK guilds. But the problem with those is that many times in the past ARPK players kills random people for bullshit reasons.
The thing is. If I for example the trader and PVE player. Running around the map and im seeing an RPK guild than I know they will kill me so I maybe start attacking. If an ARPK guild comes along than I often in MO1 waited and than they made the first hit.

I mean not all ARPK guilds are assholes. But many wanna be the white knight. But in the end they are even bigger assholes than the RPK guilds.

Maybe im completly wrong. But this is a very interresting topic. we all can debate weeks without end.
Extra Tags dont have meaning when people will not be 100% as what they label themselves.
And we have seen in the past that from a group of 30-50 people. There is atleast 1-3 people who dotn follow the own guild rules.
Its just difficult.
Yes, this narrative is what I am referring to in my personally chosen description of "A-RPK". Sadly, most guilds do not follow their own rules or stance. I can't control that, only the people in charge of those groups can, and it's sadly rare to find someone with a solid amount of integrity these days.

In the end, these tags are my own interpertation. I no longer have desire to push them on others. I however will use them to define my own guild, and other guilds when I am coming up with a description myself (in-house, as in when I am talking to my guild about other guilds). If others want to use them too, that's great. Otherwise, they can come here to see what I myself mean, when I use them. If they decide to make any effort, anyway.

Personally I don't like holding on to the truth of the matter - that most guilds are not trustworthy/selfish. I like to hold the standard higher than that with hopes that people may rise with them. I feel as though it is the least I can do.

Thank you for the reply, Speznat.
That makes them not arpk anymore. True arpk groups can turn rpk and all that yes but that doesn't need to be included in arpk description because then it switches. In the same note you can't do daily farm with and assist rpk and then be confused why you are dieing when they are attacked and you are side by side usually fighting together.
I agree, when guilds defer and act out, they are no longer what what claimed to be.

However most of the time, these guilds remain calling themselves (in this case A-RPK) whatever it is they started as. It is a personal stance I've chosen to take in the writing. If you read my above reply to Speznat, I am surrendering. I can't convince you or others one way or the other if you aren't open to it/wanting to, so this post will remain a reference for when I myself use these tags. *shrug*
 
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Suttner

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Our guild is Non-RPK. This means we do not kill players outside our hostile list without reason (And if you're on our hostile list we have a reason), but we also aren't ANTI-RPK. We're willing to work with RPK guilds and hold no major grudges against a guild for being RPK. After all, we were planning to go RPK ourselves before we determined it wasn't necessary to get the fights we want.

I'd say remove PK and Anti-PK and add Non-RPK.

PK = Normal sane person
Anti-PK = Idiot, and won't survive this game.

Everyone kills people for reason some others may question. Guilds will have to decide for themselves if those reasons are justified. If any guild were to adopt a "All murder is wrong" philosophy I would put them on hostile just for being annoying.
I mean this comes from a guild that was pure RPK before and now switched to non-RPK
It's a great example of how flueid things are in Mortal Online and why labels suck :D
 

ThaBadMan

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Hmmm so a anti-PK is a guy forced to kill himself since he kills crimminals and every kill is seen as a murder ?

I would say a A-PK player is a lawful player who defends other lawful players against unlawful players. They dont view certain kills as murders and others as purifiction.
What is it with the MO community and their need to change labels from their original meanings ?

This is the retardation of RPK label all over again... Random killing man, so fucking random rofl.

"Wait up random guy, let me just throw a dice and see if you live or die today...."
 

Rorry

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Hmmm so a anti-PK is a guy forced to kill himself since he kills crimminals and every kill is seen as a murder ?

I would say a A-PK player is a lawful player who defends other lawful players against unlawful players. They dont view certain kills as murders and others as purifiction.
What is it with the MO community and their need to change labels from their original meanings ?

This is the retardation of RPK label all over again... Random killing man, so fucking random rofl.

"Wait up random guy, let me just throw a dice and see if you live or die today...."
Hmmm, that actually could be fun. Roll a 3 or above and your life is spared newbling!