A Definition of Guild Types via Tags

Neftan

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Hello all!

Here is a rough take on a simple guild tag system. It is what I interpret to be close to what we already loosely use - just with some more info and guidelines added in.

These tags are meant to be used mostly in Recruitment Posts, in order to help players understand the general outlook and style of your guild - these tags are in no way meant to fully define you or your actions. They are a guideline.

Of course, any particular guild will vary in it's actions (as I have mentioned above), but if these tags are used correctly, it can help players understand you better at a glance, and also provide you with a potential outline for your rules or political decisions (should you feel like leaning into them, totally not something that is expected).

Moving forward I will use this post and these tags as references, even if they end up just being for myself.


If you like these, please adopt them into your guild posts! If you don't, perhaps consider posting here with why/what you don't like!



PvP Style
Risk to a Random Player, low to high: Blue -> Orange -> Red.

Yellow means it depends on the guild.
Murder is defined as killing someone who has not agreed to combat.

RPK - Random Player Killers:
Openly murder anyone at any time. The first side to a large general political conflict, actively fighting ANTI RPK players and commonly sympathizers as well. Murderers.


ANTI-RPK:
The other side to a large general political conflict, actively fighting RPK players and commonly sympathizers as well. They either only murder players for a specific reason, or do not murder at all - but can get carried away in their presumption of a players political relations - resulting in them killing (random) players.

PK:
Players who only murder if they have a specific reason. They could murder someone who is perceived as random, but if asked, will have a specific, tangible reason. Selective Murderers, often territorial or live by a code.

ANTI-PK:
Players who think ANY murder is wrong. Will ONLY kill those they see as murderers.




Other Focuses
The following tags SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY TAG your guild has - you need to define your PvP style from above as well.

PvE - Player VS Environment:
Players who focus on PvE content like Creatures, or Crafting.


Empire:
Players who plan to focus on Base Building / Regional / Territory Politics.

Trade:
Players who have a focus on mercantile services of varying natures. Not just a crafter in spare time, but players who actively advocate for their craft or services, and strive to build clientele.

RP - Roleplay:
Players who act out a specific role, often speaking in or as a character or acting as if the game is real, in order to build immersion.

(Merc)enary:
Players who accept contracts related to PvP - usually needs another type with it.



ExGuildOne (PK, RP)
A Player Killing Guild with a Role Play Focus - They only kill (random) players when they have a specific goal that is related to a form of RP, and killing is not their default reaction.


ExGuildTwo (RPK, Trade)
A Random Player Killing Guild, with a Trade Focus - They openly kill anyone they cross if they feel like it, but offer mercantile services and will not kill those they are doing trade with.


ExGuildThree (PvE, PK)
A Player VS Environment Guild, with Player Killing tendancies - They never attack people unless they have personal issues with them (such as revenge on a ganker or to make a player leave a spawn).

ExGuildFour (RP, PK, Trade, Merc)

A Roleplay Guild, with Player Killing tendencies, and a focus in Trade + Mercenary Work - They only attack players if they have a specific reason, governed either by their RP or Mercenary Work. They also offer Merchantile / Non-PvP Services.

 
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Neftan

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what about empire building guilds ? ^^
You would need to define what that actually means, in a literal way.

I feel like the tags/types I put above are more guidelines than anything else. An Empire Building Guild may be RPK or ANTI-PK, for example, if my understanding is correct.

So as an Empire Guild you would simple say you are an Empire guild, and include tags that help label your general actions.
 

Konrad

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an empire building guild can be aRPK, RPK, PK, trade, PVE, RP all at the same time xD + politics that will confuse people even more
Empire building means its generally oriented around territory control and setting its own 'kingdom' and own rules in their territory, hence why it is 'its own' separate tag.
 

Neftan

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an empire building guild can be aRPK, RPK, PK, trade, PVE, RP all at the same time xD + politics that will confuse people even more
Empire building means its generally oriented around territory control and setting its own 'kingdom' and own rules in their territory, hence why it is 'its own' separate tag.
That sounds like a PK guild to me - a group who chooses to kill players for a predetermined reason! Like having rules or a territory. :)
 

MolagAmur

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None of these tags are relevant. Its an outdated way of thinking and very few guilds stay true to what they advertise except for people who say they kill whoever they want. At the end of the day every guild does what benefits them, and every encounter they have will define that. No need to label yourself with these tags and force you into an artificial way of handling a situation that may go against what your guild claims to be.


No need to sit here and argue over what all these labels really mean. Politics should come natural. KOS lists are kinda dumb tbh.
 

Neftan

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None of these tags are relevant. Its an outdated way of thinking and very few guilds stay true to what they advertise except for people who say they kill whoever they want. At the end of the day every guild does what benefits them, and every encounter they have will define that. No need to label yourself with these tags and force you into an artificial way of handling a situation that may go against what your guild claims to be.


No need to sit here and argue over what all these labels really mean. Politics should come natural. KOS lists are kinda dumb tbh.
Thank you for the reply! I both agree and disagree with you.

You're right that the majority of guilds stray from what they claim, ultimately doing what benefits them the most. However, there are some who make a considerable effort to maintain a solid layer of integrity. At the very least - there SHOULD be. I know I do, and my company Morgrance does. Why don't we help facilitate this group of people, to help push the community into a more political climate that is less fuelled by purely hack and slash mentality?

These tags also do not need control you or a guild. They are more meant to be used as guidelines to indicate the general flavour of your guild. There is a disclaimer list at the top of the post that identifies that most guilds need to be dug into in order to understand. These are to help guide.

As a side note, I agree that KoS lists are not very intelligent. I refuse to let my guild create one. Instead we keep a database of different guilds, their general hostility levels, and a summary of our interactions with them. Each situation should be independent and variable, building upon a bigger picture and relationship - outside of perhaps war.


2004 called. They want their guild definitions back.
It's 2021. These definitions are outdated and useless.
I hear you. We are totally moving out of an age where labels are valid - most people like to flow and be natural, living without any barriers. Expression is good, right?

However in a game where politics fuels the content cycle, I feel like some guidelines (not labels) can help keep things literate and understandable. These tags are meant to only really exist in Guild Recruitment posts, as a guideline for the general behaviour of a guild. There is a disclaimer at the top that says each guild will play it's own way.

I also would like to say - if these 'labels' are so out of date, why does a peek into the political climate (or a peek into the guild Recruitment section) result in a mass collection of "RPK" and "ANTI-RPK" statements? It's as if the two sides oppose eachother, each side seeing the other as a tangible definition, if a messy one. I feel as though the very existence of those terms and the conflict indicate that there is room for more refinement.

What else makes you feel like these are outdated? What else do you think?
 
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I like the idea you have Neftan, especially the mercenary one. Perhaps there can be ways to address these tags that allows guilds to openly confront more of what their occupation is. Like planning to own a Keep or just roam to pvp and to adventure. That stuff could be interesting essentially guiding newer players to find what they like. If pvp tags should come there should be allowed to use several.
 

Neftan

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I like the idea you have Neftan, especially the mercenary one. Perhaps there can be ways to address these tags that allows guilds to openly confront more of what their occupation is. Like planning to own a Keep or just roam to pvp and to adventure. That stuff could be interesting essentially guiding newer players to find what they like. If pvp tags should come there should be allowed to use several.
I wasn't thinking of this as being an official thing, more an adopted thing that goes into text guild recruitment posts. Thanks for the support though!

Also yes, in either capacity I think more than one PvP tags could happen. One just may be more suited.
 

Kaemik

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Our guild is Non-RPK. This means we do not kill players outside our hostile list without reason (And if you're on our hostile list we have a reason), but we also aren't ANTI-RPK. We're willing to work with RPK guilds and hold no major grudges against a guild for being RPK. After all, we were planning to go RPK ourselves before we determined it wasn't necessary to get the fights we want.

I'd say remove PK and Anti-PK and add Non-RPK.

PK = Normal sane person
Anti-PK = Idiot, and won't survive this game.

Everyone kills people for reason some others may question. Guilds will have to decide for themselves if those reasons are justified. If any guild were to adopt a "All murder is wrong" philosophy I would put them on hostile just for being annoying.
 
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Kaemik

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Not polite but so true. If you're going to kill anyone who kills anyone else regardless of reason, you're pretty much an RPK yourself. Just a more sanctimonious one. Hey wait a second is THAT what Zeal is???
 

MolagAmur

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Our guild is Non-RPK. This means we do not kill players outside our hostile list without reason (And if you're on our hostile list we have a reason), but we also aren't ANTI-RPK. We're willing to work with RPK guilds and hold no major grudges against a guild for being RPK. After all, we were planning to go RPK ourselves before we determined it wasn't necessary to get the fights we want.

I'd say remove PK and Anti-PK and add Non-RPK.

PK = Normal sane person
Anti-PK = Idiot, and won't survive this game.

Everyone kills people for reason some others may question. Guilds will have to decide for themselves if those reasons are justified. If any guild were to adopt a "All murder is wrong" philosophy I would put them on hostile just for being annoying.
So basically your a guild that does what's in their best interest.

Again, these tags are restricting. People will judge your guild off your actions regardless of what you label yourself as. You can be a good and friendly guild that has members who gank people they view as enemies from time to time. Politics aren't that simple...and its usually a "he said she said" situation anyway.

Save yourselves the trouble. Don't give your guild a label and treat every guild according to how you view them and what kind of relations you want with them.

I've seen some of the most murderous guilds be called anti-rpk and some of the most pacifist guilds called rpk.

Guilds who claim to be anti-rpk just need any "reason" to kill you. And its extremely easy to come up with one...
 

Konrad

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thats why I mentioned earlier that those tags are meaningless, if you are in a big guild claiming territory any of those tags wont be able to define you as a guild, as there is so much going on with politics and general rules set for the region that its impossible to play 'one playstyle' you will be almost forced to enforce all of those tags except RPK, hence making the categorisation meaningless. You want to know what type of guild is 'NAME'? read their recruitment post, ask them yourself or simply ask around other players to get a picture. I have seen so many guilds in this game and the previous one claim to be; 'this' and 'that' using different old tags such as in this post which were meaningless, why? because if you actually played the game and talked with people they would have told you something completely different about that guild. Nevermind the troll/griefer guilds claiming to be aRPK or peacefull merchants xd lol
In MO1 I have seen very few guilds that stayed true to their 'tags' and agenda for most of the games lifespan.

Instead of trying to teach noobs about 'tags' go and tell them to talk with people and learn what the game is truly about, and if they are looking for a guild that will suit their gamestyle; first good place is to read the recruitment posts and then have a look around in game and talk to some people.
Just because someone claims to be 'trader' 'pve' 'aRPK' doesnt mean shit to me, if I dont know that guy and none of my friends do either chances are that I won;t trade with those guys for shit as I don't trust them, on the other hand If lets say Ibarruri was in a full RPK aka lets kill all noobs in tindrem garden guild I would still trade with him because I know I can trust him every time when it comes to business. Hence why those 'Tags' are meaningless.
 
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Kebek

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So basically your a guild that does what's in their best interest.

Again, these tags are restricting. People will judge your guild off your actions regardless of what you label yourself as. You can be a good and friendly guild that has members who gank people they view as enemies from time to time. Politics aren't that simple...and its usually a "he said she said" situation anyway.

Save yourselves the trouble. Don't give your guild a label and treat every guild according to how you view them and what kind of relations you want with them.

I've seen some of the most murderous guilds be called anti-rpk and some of the most pacifist guilds called rpk.

Guilds who claim to be anti-rpk just need any "reason" to kill you. And its extremely easy to come up with one...
Exactly. These tags are for people who don't have the mental capacity to understand anything more complex than a simple tag.
 

Neftan

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So basically your a guild that does what's in their best interest.

Again, these tags are restricting. People will judge your guild off your actions regardless of what you label yourself as. You can be a good and friendly guild that has members who gank people they view as enemies from time to time. Politics aren't that simple...and its usually a "he said she said" situation anyway.

Save yourselves the trouble. Don't give your guild a label and treat every guild according to how you view them and what kind of relations you want with them.

I've seen some of the most murderous guilds be called anti-rpk and some of the most pacifist guilds called rpk.

Guilds who claim to be anti-rpk just need any "reason" to kill you. And its extremely easy to come up with one...
Exactly. These tags are for people who don't have the mental capacity to understand anything more complex than a simple tag.
I notice the two of you took the time to reply again, but not to my constructive and polite counterpoints and reasoning. You latched on the others who disagreed - instead of taking the time and willpower to actually consider my words and reply coherently. Noted.


thats why I mentioned earlier that those tags are meaningless, if you are in a big guild claiming territory any of those tags wont be able to define you as a guild, as there is so much going on with politics and general rules set for the region that its impossible to play 'one playstyle' you will be almost forced to enforce all of those tags except RPK, hence making the categorisation meaningless. You want to know what type of guild is 'NAME'? read their recruitment post, ask them yourself or simply ask around other players to get a picture. I have seen so many guilds in this game and the previous one claim to be; 'this' and 'that' using different old tags such as in this post which were meaningless, why? because if you actually played the game and talked with people they would have told you something completely different about that guild. Nevermind the troll/griefer guilds claiming to be aRPK or peacefull merchants xd lol
In MO1 I have seen very few guilds that stayed true to their 'tags' and agenda for most of the games lifespan.

Instead of trying to teach noobs about 'tags' go and tell them to talk with people and learn what the game is truly about, and if they are looking for a guild that will suit their gamestyle; first good place is to read the recruitment posts and then have a look around in game and talk to some people.
Just because someone claims to be 'trader' 'pve' 'aRPK' doesnt mean shit to me, if I dont know that guy and none of my friends do either chances are that I won;t trade with those guys for shit as I don't trust them, on the other hand If lets say Ibarruri was in a full RPK aka lets kill all noobs in tindrem garden guild I would still trade with him because I know I can trust him every time when it comes to business. Hence why those 'Tags' are meaningless.


Our guild is Non-RPK. This means we do not kill players outside our hostile list without reason (And if you're on our hostile list we have a reason), but we also aren't ANTI-RPK. We're willing to work with RPK guilds and hold no major grudges against a guild for being RPK. After all, we were planning to go RPK ourselves before we determined it wasn't necessary to get the fights we want.

I'd say remove PK and Anti-PK and add Non-RPK.

PK = Normal sane person
Anti-PK = Idiot, and won't survive this game.

Everyone kills people for reason some others may question. Guilds will have to decide for themselves if those reasons are justified. If any guild were to adopt a "All murder is wrong" philosophy I would put them on hostile just for being annoying.

Okay - here is a blanket reply to all four of you. First of all, there is an incredible amount of bias coming out of each of you. Kaemik, for example - "Anti-PK = Idiot, and won't survive this game." In order to be taken seriously, and be able to participate in constructive conversations or debates, you need to do your best to be objective and let go of personal bias.

You're all focusing on how tight these terms are, throwing claims of small minded or lacking depth - when I have tried to make it clear that I understand these tags are too restrictive. These are meant to be general guidelines, there is a disclaimer saying that and I have replied saying so more than once.

A large, multi-faceted guild and their escapades can have a general focus to their playstyle - most guilds have a code, a ruleset, or a theme. Some all of the above.

Talking about "small minded" - stop seeing the tags in such a narrow scope. A "PK" guild, per my outline, is a guild who can murder if they have reason. They won't just cut you up on sight, they will have some sort of reason. That means it can be a political reason, a regional reason, territorial, personal. Yes, this means they can come up with a 'reason' easily. Yes, that can be exploited. That is the line that separates dubious guilds from those with integrity.

By the definition of PK, your multi faceted, large scale political guilds can easily exist with "Empire, PK" in their recruitment post without a second thought.

As for the secondary tags like "Trade" - it outlines CLEARLY that they are for DEVOTED players. OF COURSE anyone trades. Everyone will have a profession, everyone trades to get things they don't have - of course you will come upon deals with people where you exchange in bulk, yes, clearly, obviously. That is one of the foundation pieces of the game. That doesn't make you a TRADE guild. A guild with a focus on trade would be like old ICH or Ruben's "RoyalBankofTindrem" - a guild who is at least partly DEVOTED to the sale of services. On top of that, even if a guild DID use a Trade tag, there is nothing in having that tag that suggests you have to trust them. Of course the tag is not meant to imply you should. That would be a foolish choice. You need to do your research first.

Anyway - I could pick apart your replies and reply with more explicitly relevant details, but I think this sums it up. I think you are focusing in too hard on things being 'restrictive', including far too much personal bias, and otherwise being hostile and/or avoidant when you could be actually digging into the topic.
 

Kebek

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Jan 11, 2021
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I notice the two of you took the time to reply again, but not to my constructive and polite counterpoints and reasoning. You latched on the others who disagreed - instead of taking the time and willpower to actually consider my words and reply coherently. Noted.
I'm sure the irony of you talking about taking time and willpower to consider something while at the same time wanting to simplify guilds to tags out of laziness is beyond you.
 

Neftan

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I'm sure the irony of you talking about taking time and willpower to consider something while at the same time wanting to simplify guilds to tags out of laziness is beyond you.
It isn't out of laziness. It is for some guideance. Acknowledging that the majority of people will not read into a guild deeply before trying to join it is what I am trying to do. Using these tags we can help direct the masses to a guild that intrigues them more easily.

I also, have explained this innumerable times. These tags are in no way meant to take over guild ID or politics. There are disclaimers and my responses all over this thread now. Please take the time to try and absorb these things - I do not want to simplify guilds into tags.
 

Kaemik

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If a guild is ARPK it can generally be assumed

"I killed you because you didn't hand over your gold"
"I killed you because you because we own the whole map and you're on it"
"I killed you because I hate everyone with two legs"

Is not going to fly. ARPK generally designates some kind of "guardian of neutrals" type mentality. A guild with no further ideology/nuance behind an ARPK status is exceedingly rare. People can barely accept that RPK / Non-RPK / ARPK are meaningful labels. I think a guild that feels their ideology/nuance are meaningfully should attempt to define that in their guild promotional material rather than creating tags that don't make it entirely clear if they will KOS you or not if you gank that guy who keeps looting the walkers you killed.
 
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